You are so ridiculously spot on with your commentary here. I’m Gen X and watched it with some high school friends - we thrived on John Hughes movies and still quote them on the daily, 40 years later.
I got frustrated with Andrew McCarthy’s ignorance in recognizing the problem was just a “you problem”. I was screaming at the TV “listen to her!!!” with just about everything Demi said.
And I did the same with Rob Lowe.
I couldn’t help feeling by the end of the talk with Emilio Estevez that he just wanted Andrew to shut up and leave his house.
And this is why I’m Gen X. And why your article is brilliant.
Yeah, me too. It was all the shots of Emilio (and the fact that he said he wouldn't do a movie if Andrew was involved) that got me thinking of whether any of them actually liked Andrew during that time. Because AM made the doc, and because he didn't hang out with any of them back then, we don't really hear about any personality dynamics. They were 20-somethings with all the money in the world, I'm sure there was pettiness.
It was also the Emilio conversations that first put Andrew in a bad light to me. He blames the term "Brat Pack" on his dwindled career. If it didn't hurt others (Rob Lowe, Demi, etc..), you have to start thinking that maybe it isn't a magazine article that caused you not getting jobs... maybe you just didn't have the natural allure that some of the others had.
I got the sense as a NY stage actor he did (and perhaps still does) hold himself above the others, and they sensed that. I wonder if Emilio just didn't want to be in a movie with him and used the "Brat Pack" thing as an excuse.
Yeah, AM is the victim of life. The fact that he’s holding onto it so tightly 40 years later is, I suppose, proof of how he feels he deserved more.
Oh, and what you said is EXACTLY what I thought about Emilio. He was ok casting and acting with Demi after the article came out (“Wisdom”). So I’m not sure his “I didn’t want to work with any Brat Pack” excuse actually holds up very well as much as “I didn’t want to work with you, Andrew.”
John Cryer is on the record saying: “When we made ‘Pretty in Pink,’ Andrew and I didn’t get along because he was a d—,”
Molly Ringwold also despised Andrew during the making of Pretty In Pink.
Seems there may be more to the story than a magazine article.
Enjoyed this Rob. A balanced and honest reflection of a bygone era.
That part you hit upon with McCarthy making some questionable film choices point to accountability and him owning his role in steering his career. He might argue that he was limited because of the slanderous label but like all of us come to realize at a certain age, we are responsible for our actions. I didn’t feel like he was there which made it hard to watch. Maybe it’s my own discomfort with watching others in moments of discomfort! I’ll own up to this.
Thank you Beth! That means a lot. I think that's something I really responded to, that he has put so much weight on this so-called slight when many of his fellow Brat Packers either had successful long-term careers (Lowe, Moore) or made peace with losing the limelight (Sheedy, Lea Thompson). The fact that he remains "stuck" in that moment is so interesting and relatable for me, and it's rare to see a celebrity be that honest about it so publicly.
What was your take on Estevez? He’s so much quieter, wears his thoughts closer to his chest and also looks so much like his dad - the last point is neither here nor there.
He's very guarded -- even the way the kitchen island is between the two of them during the interview, and that they shake hands rather than hug at the end. I wonder if they have just never really liked each other personally (and that was the real reason Emilio didn't want him in that movie).
There were certainly issues with the doc on a technical/pacing level —understandable as a first time documentarian— but I really enjoyed the film for many of the same reasons you illustrate in your piece here.
I kept wondering, is Andrew coming to see a wider picture here? And I was never sure. During the interviews he was respectful and seemed to genuinely want to connect with old pack members. But his takeaways in the car seemed to indicate he did not widen his view much if at all.
It’s like the film was make with a predetermined goal in mind: find someone else who feels as damaged by the Brat Pack label as I do. It’s like the opposite of the open-minded “discovery” approach. Yet, despite his myopic vision, the frame widened and a semblance of insight was felt by the viewer. And I would hope Andrew as well.
Yeah it’s very hard to tell. I think during the interview with the journalist Dave Blum, the real person doesn’t line up with the person he imagined in his head all those decades, and maybe that pushes him to a little more self-awareness. Or he just wants us to think that because we expect that sort of emotional arc in the movie. Thanks for reading my piece Steve!
Very good review! Just watched it this week, and felt like Demi and Rob Lowe had the wisdom and had done their inner work. AM needed to have listened to them years ago. I didn’t think the documentary was about AM issue about the article but an overview of what the Brat Pack meant and what they had done. I found AM a bit whiny. His visit to the writer of the article was interesting and I don’t think he got what he wanted. It felt like a wake up call that he has been holding on to a slight for way too long and it wasn’t as bas as he imagined.
Thanks Vanessa! I'm curious if making the film has caused McCarthy to have a little more perspective and appreciaton and grow up a little bit. But I saw an interview where he said he thought "Pretty in Pink" was nothing special and it's like, dude, what are you DOING?
I hope it did make him realize that he wasted 40 years of feeling slighted when he didn’t have to. He could have turned it around and done more with it.
Pretty in Pink was one of my favorites and how could he?
Perhaps he thought that he was above the rest and that could have been his issue to begin with. He was the more neurotic of the pack for sure. Still good to watch, especially with the clips of the movies. 🍿
'I can’t be the only middle-aged person who still occasionally thinks about slights and mistakes that happened in high school and college, 35 or 40 years ago. But I’m sure if I brought them up to the other people who were there, they’d look at me with total bafflement and say “What are you talking about?”'
This is bang on.
It's unhealthy to let anger from "slights and mistakes that happened" decades ago to guide my actions as a middle-aged man. Time to let that go. There are healthier ways to be in the world.
I love this take on the doc. I missed this completely, perhaps because I’m a millennial and even though I’ve seen some of the Brat Pack films, they don’t matter much to my identity or how I situate myself within the pop culture landscape. I actually thought McCarthy was being petty and… well, bratty with this silly vendetta. I ended up siding with the New Yorker writer in their exchange lol
Thank you Joe! As a teenager, I think at the time I resented the Brat Pack a little as the "cool popular kids" taking over movies. Looking back, and especially rewatching the movies with my daughter during the pandemic, I have a lot more affection and forgiveness towards them. Even if McCarthy is the brattiest one of all!
I haven’t rewatched any of them I don’t think, but maybe it’s time to revisit the more popular ones. It’s funny… I never thought of them as cool or bratty but as dorky and melodramatic at varying levels. Like who goes to school wearing a coat *coughs* Judd Nelson lol
Fantastic review. I have definitely seen some of our contemporaries complaining about the film, but I found it absolutely wonderful. And the end felt like perfection to me.
Thank you Alise! Agree with you on the end -- especially the last shot. Maybe it's Pollyannaish of me but I would like to believe they don't wait another 30 years to get together.
St. Elmo’s Fire, oh what an all time favorite movie I watched at least 8 times. Who can forget Estevez chasing the doctor the whole movie, or Rob Lowe having a party at a house he was supposed to be house sitting? Demi Moore played a good part, too.
Wasn’t McCarthy in Pretty in Pink? That was a good movie back then, too. I never saw “Weekend at Bernie’s”.
I was a fan of the “brat pack”. Wish they’d think of a good way to get them all in another movie again.
Thanks for sharing, that’s great! I also enjoyed what you wrote about being young and broke in Chicago and trying to find your place. I was in a similar situation in Chicago a few years later . . .
You are so ridiculously spot on with your commentary here. I’m Gen X and watched it with some high school friends - we thrived on John Hughes movies and still quote them on the daily, 40 years later.
I got frustrated with Andrew McCarthy’s ignorance in recognizing the problem was just a “you problem”. I was screaming at the TV “listen to her!!!” with just about everything Demi said.
And I did the same with Rob Lowe.
I couldn’t help feeling by the end of the talk with Emilio Estevez that he just wanted Andrew to shut up and leave his house.
And this is why I’m Gen X. And why your article is brilliant.
Thank you.
Jeff! Thank you so much! The Emilio dynamic was FASCINATING to me.
Yeah, me too. It was all the shots of Emilio (and the fact that he said he wouldn't do a movie if Andrew was involved) that got me thinking of whether any of them actually liked Andrew during that time. Because AM made the doc, and because he didn't hang out with any of them back then, we don't really hear about any personality dynamics. They were 20-somethings with all the money in the world, I'm sure there was pettiness.
It was also the Emilio conversations that first put Andrew in a bad light to me. He blames the term "Brat Pack" on his dwindled career. If it didn't hurt others (Rob Lowe, Demi, etc..), you have to start thinking that maybe it isn't a magazine article that caused you not getting jobs... maybe you just didn't have the natural allure that some of the others had.
I got the sense as a NY stage actor he did (and perhaps still does) hold himself above the others, and they sensed that. I wonder if Emilio just didn't want to be in a movie with him and used the "Brat Pack" thing as an excuse.
Yeah, AM is the victim of life. The fact that he’s holding onto it so tightly 40 years later is, I suppose, proof of how he feels he deserved more.
Oh, and what you said is EXACTLY what I thought about Emilio. He was ok casting and acting with Demi after the article came out (“Wisdom”). So I’m not sure his “I didn’t want to work with any Brat Pack” excuse actually holds up very well as much as “I didn’t want to work with you, Andrew.”
John Cryer is on the record saying: “When we made ‘Pretty in Pink,’ Andrew and I didn’t get along because he was a d—,”
Molly Ringwold also despised Andrew during the making of Pretty In Pink.
Seems there may be more to the story than a magazine article.
Andrew McCarthy memoir: “Brat”
His doc: “Brats”
And yet he says he hates the term “Brat Pack.”
Gotta appreciate the combo of cash grab and kvetch about the source of said grab. 😜
Haha I didn’t even think of that!
Hahaha. Great insight.
this was well written and good, but can we agree to disagree?
I absolutely LOVED this film and man, ALLLL THE FEELS.
GenXer here and fucking proud of it.
Oh I liked it too! Just not always for reasons that the filmmakers are aware of.
Enjoyed this Rob. A balanced and honest reflection of a bygone era.
That part you hit upon with McCarthy making some questionable film choices point to accountability and him owning his role in steering his career. He might argue that he was limited because of the slanderous label but like all of us come to realize at a certain age, we are responsible for our actions. I didn’t feel like he was there which made it hard to watch. Maybe it’s my own discomfort with watching others in moments of discomfort! I’ll own up to this.
Thank you Beth! That means a lot. I think that's something I really responded to, that he has put so much weight on this so-called slight when many of his fellow Brat Packers either had successful long-term careers (Lowe, Moore) or made peace with losing the limelight (Sheedy, Lea Thompson). The fact that he remains "stuck" in that moment is so interesting and relatable for me, and it's rare to see a celebrity be that honest about it so publicly.
What was your take on Estevez? He’s so much quieter, wears his thoughts closer to his chest and also looks so much like his dad - the last point is neither here nor there.
He's very guarded -- even the way the kitchen island is between the two of them during the interview, and that they shake hands rather than hug at the end. I wonder if they have just never really liked each other personally (and that was the real reason Emilio didn't want him in that movie).
There were certainly issues with the doc on a technical/pacing level —understandable as a first time documentarian— but I really enjoyed the film for many of the same reasons you illustrate in your piece here.
I kept wondering, is Andrew coming to see a wider picture here? And I was never sure. During the interviews he was respectful and seemed to genuinely want to connect with old pack members. But his takeaways in the car seemed to indicate he did not widen his view much if at all.
It’s like the film was make with a predetermined goal in mind: find someone else who feels as damaged by the Brat Pack label as I do. It’s like the opposite of the open-minded “discovery” approach. Yet, despite his myopic vision, the frame widened and a semblance of insight was felt by the viewer. And I would hope Andrew as well.
Yeah it’s very hard to tell. I think during the interview with the journalist Dave Blum, the real person doesn’t line up with the person he imagined in his head all those decades, and maybe that pushes him to a little more self-awareness. Or he just wants us to think that because we expect that sort of emotional arc in the movie. Thanks for reading my piece Steve!
Very good review! Just watched it this week, and felt like Demi and Rob Lowe had the wisdom and had done their inner work. AM needed to have listened to them years ago. I didn’t think the documentary was about AM issue about the article but an overview of what the Brat Pack meant and what they had done. I found AM a bit whiny. His visit to the writer of the article was interesting and I don’t think he got what he wanted. It felt like a wake up call that he has been holding on to a slight for way too long and it wasn’t as bas as he imagined.
Thanks Vanessa! I'm curious if making the film has caused McCarthy to have a little more perspective and appreciaton and grow up a little bit. But I saw an interview where he said he thought "Pretty in Pink" was nothing special and it's like, dude, what are you DOING?
I hope it did make him realize that he wasted 40 years of feeling slighted when he didn’t have to. He could have turned it around and done more with it.
Pretty in Pink was one of my favorites and how could he?
Perhaps he thought that he was above the rest and that could have been his issue to begin with. He was the more neurotic of the pack for sure. Still good to watch, especially with the clips of the movies. 🍿
Andrew McCarthy is a WHINER.
I liked these sentences from your piece:
'I can’t be the only middle-aged person who still occasionally thinks about slights and mistakes that happened in high school and college, 35 or 40 years ago. But I’m sure if I brought them up to the other people who were there, they’d look at me with total bafflement and say “What are you talking about?”'
This is bang on.
It's unhealthy to let anger from "slights and mistakes that happened" decades ago to guide my actions as a middle-aged man. Time to let that go. There are healthier ways to be in the world.
Thank you for the reminder!
Thanks Scott! Believe me, I’m trying!
I have not watched "Brats" yet, but my wife has. After reading your piece, I'm looking forward to it.
Hope you like it Brian! Thanks for reading!
I love this take on the doc. I missed this completely, perhaps because I’m a millennial and even though I’ve seen some of the Brat Pack films, they don’t matter much to my identity or how I situate myself within the pop culture landscape. I actually thought McCarthy was being petty and… well, bratty with this silly vendetta. I ended up siding with the New Yorker writer in their exchange lol
Thank you Joe! As a teenager, I think at the time I resented the Brat Pack a little as the "cool popular kids" taking over movies. Looking back, and especially rewatching the movies with my daughter during the pandemic, I have a lot more affection and forgiveness towards them. Even if McCarthy is the brattiest one of all!
I haven’t rewatched any of them I don’t think, but maybe it’s time to revisit the more popular ones. It’s funny… I never thought of them as cool or bratty but as dorky and melodramatic at varying levels. Like who goes to school wearing a coat *coughs* Judd Nelson lol
Fantastic review. I have definitely seen some of our contemporaries complaining about the film, but I found it absolutely wonderful. And the end felt like perfection to me.
Thank you Alise! Agree with you on the end -- especially the last shot. Maybe it's Pollyannaish of me but I would like to believe they don't wait another 30 years to get together.
St. Elmo’s Fire, oh what an all time favorite movie I watched at least 8 times. Who can forget Estevez chasing the doctor the whole movie, or Rob Lowe having a party at a house he was supposed to be house sitting? Demi Moore played a good part, too.
Wasn’t McCarthy in Pretty in Pink? That was a good movie back then, too. I never saw “Weekend at Bernie’s”.
I was a fan of the “brat pack”. Wish they’d think of a good way to get them all in another movie again.
I THINK there was talk of a St. Elmo's Fire 2 recently? I wonder which of them would be willing to do it. Thanks for reading Beth!
Hold up…Mannequin and Weekend at Bernie’s are classics! (Not the sequel)
CLEARLY I touched a nerve there! You're not the first to call me out!
"in a very Chris Traeger way" -- heehee. I'll have to see it for Lowe, Moore, Sheedy, sounds like.
They're all great! They seem to have a very healthy perspective on the ups and downs of fame.
Here you go! https://open.substack.com/pub/sweavermph/p/when-the-curve-ball-is-a-brick-wall?r=1tvol&utm_medium=ios
Thanks for sharing, that’s great! I also enjoyed what you wrote about being young and broke in Chicago and trying to find your place. I was in a similar situation in Chicago a few years later . . .
Loved your take on this Rob. I wrote about Brats this week, too.
Thank you Stephanie! Where is your piece? I’d love to read it.